I used to specialize in picking houses that were NAH.(not at home).
If it seemed someone MIGHT be at home and it was my turn to knock I would tap REAL quiet on the door frame...hopin and prayin...dont answer.Oh! how shallow my understanding of the Bible in those days.
How minimal my memory for scripture. How slim my ability to defend my faith in public.I was one of the milk suckin babe like ones.Not eating the meat of truth.
Oh Happy days.
refiners fire
JoinedPosts by refiners fire
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10
House where Joel started his time every morn.
by joelbear inthis house was about 1/2 mile from the kingdom hall.
no one ever answered the door.
it was a favorite place for us to start our time.. you know all of yall had one.. joel.
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refiners fire
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An Adventist "Thought Adjustment"
by refiners fire inone of the most important early publishings in adventist history was the "word to the little flock", words uttered by ellen g white, soon to be prophetess of adventism,tract published by her husband and co leader,james white.. it is in this tract that "eg"(as i shall refer to her)first expounded the doctrine of the sabbath, a doctrine as important to adventists as the doctrine of the work is to the jws.. but at the end of this tract an incident is mentioned about which much conflict arose,an incident of interest to apostate adventists.. james white mentions it in his comments at the end of the tract.. it is the famous "solar system" vision of e g white.... what happened was that back at this early stage of adventism, there was only a little kernal of believers, and attending meetings was a man called bates.
bates was a sea captain, quite wealthy, highly respected,what a useful recruit he would be!.
eg knew that bates was obsessed with astronomy and to help bates along in his conversion god himself gave eg a vision of the solar system, flew her around the planets and she described her adventures, live, while in vision, for all to hear.
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refiners fire
One of the most important early publishings in adventist history was the "Word to the little flock", words uttered by Ellen G White, soon to be prophetess of Adventism,tract published by her husband and co leader,James White.
It is in this tract that "EG"(as I shall refer to her)first expounded the doctrine of the Sabbath, a doctrine as important to Adventists as the doctrine of The Work is to the JWs.
But at the end of this tract an incident is mentioned about which much conflict arose,an incident of interest to apostate Adventists.
James white mentions it in his comments at the end of the tract.
It is the famous "Solar system" vision of E G White...What happened was that back at this early stage of Adventism, there was only a little kernal of believers, and attending meetings was a man called Bates. Bates was a sea captain, quite wealthy, highly respected,what a useful recruit he would be!
EG knew that Bates was obsessed with astronomy and to help Bates along in his conversion God himself gave EG a vision of the Solar system, flew her around the planets and she described her adventures, live, while in vision, for all to hear.
Bates was so impressed he signed his life over to the church.Here is how J.N.Loughborough recounts the incident in his Standard Adventist work "The great Second Advent Movement"....
Quote:
"One evening at the conference above mentioned (Topsham,Maine,1846)
In the presence of Captain Bates,who was yet undecided,Mrs White
while in vision,began to talk about the stars,giving a glowing description of the rosy tinted belts which she saw across the surface of some planet,and added, "I see 4 moons".
"Oh!" said Bates,"she is viewing Jupiter".
Then, having made motions as though she were travelling through space,she began giving descriptions of the belts and rings in their ever varying beauty,and said,"I see 7 moons".
Bates said "She is describing Saturn".....
This was sufficient,and accomplished its purpose,Elder Bates was convinced,and became a firm believer in the visions".
End of quote.Now a problem arose with this vision some time later.
At the time of the vision the number of moons of each of the planets was correct. Unfortunately, astronomers later discovered that both Jupiter and Saturn both had more moons than she said.
How to explain the problem, and still keep Mrs White sacrosanct as the infallible channel of God?Here is what Francis D Nichol (A chief Adventist apologist) says in his book "Ellen G White and her critics" This book was published in 1951. A hundred years after the event....
Quote:
"In the passage describing Saturn Mrs White did not speak of Saturn by name".
End quote.
Bates and everyone present ASSUMED she was talking about Saturn.
Indeed her own husband assumed the same thing and published his understanding in "little flock".
But James White is not the channel. Hes only the publisher of her utterances.
Nichol next says:
quote:
"Having 7 moons.The facts are that Mrs White,speaking of that world,which she identified only as a place that Enoch was visiting,does not use the restrictive turn 'ONLY 7 moons' "
end quote.
Nichol then ,in language to verbose to quote here, explains it as a "present truth" understanding.The upshot of the whole thing is that everyone present,including James White, Bates and Loughborough had to adjust their thinking to understand that it was only a "present truth" understanding so as to maintain the infallibility of the channel.
E G White never said it.
And even if she DID say it, it was only "present truth". -
Rutherford speaks.
by refiners fire injust in case you ever start to forget what he was.... watchtower.
june 15, 1922. article: "seventy years desolation".
subheading: "records falsified by kings".
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refiners fire
Just in case you ever start to forget what he was...
Watchtower. June 15, 1922
Article: "Seventy years desolation"
Subheading: "Records falsified by kings"
(selective quotation by me)"Pagan kings did not hesitate to falsify inscriptions. They left out whatever did not suit them,and altered the records of facts when that pleased their arrogant boastfulness....Assyrian kings never record their failures....entire reigns of kings are omitted in the inscriptions at the option of succeeding monarchs".
Subheading: "untrustworthiness of archeologists"
Rutherford is here selectively quoting a speech by one "doctor Brown" to prove his point.
quote:"Advance is through guesses...great and infectious enthusiasm,but a sad lack of...scholarly patience...everything has been swallowed,the simplest rules of critical inquiry have been forgotten. There has been blind trusting to authority...an assumption of fact upon mere say so...a constant and enforced shifting of ground....he must not treat the hypothesis as an established fact and build a dogmatic exposition around it.They ought to demand that fact be sharply distinguished from guess....playing fast and loose with historical documents...hailing them eagerly when they say what you want them to say but discrediting them when their utterances are troublesome to you..."
"ENTIRE REIGNS OF KINGS ARE OMITTED AT THE OPTIONS OF SUCCEEDING MONARCHS"!!
Burn Rutherford.Burn!
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I finally did IT!!
by teenyuck ini told my jw mother that i really did not like being a jw as a child, i hated going in service, i hated going to meetings and i really despised being told that i had to be "subservient" to a man some day.
i hated that i could not be a brownie or girl scout.
bad associations and all.
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refiners fire
it is amazing that you have been out of the org 20 years and only just told your mother how you feel.
No criticism there.
A friend of mine, 40 years old, only just told his parents how he felt about them and their abuse of him down the witness years. You cant do these things till you are ready huh? -
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JW Revelation interpretation is nuts.
by refiners fire inthe witness interpretation of the book of revelation is the most ridiculous i have ever seen in a major religion.. sometimes i read revelation again, looking for it to come clear to my eyes,and i was reading it last night.
the dubs are lost.. example.
so much for the dubs on the 1918 ressurection.. verse 5:.
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refiners fire
The Witness interpretation of the book of Revelation is the most ridiculous I have ever seen in a major religion.
Sometimes I read Revelation again, looking for it to come clear to my eyes,and I was reading it last night. The dubs are LOST.
Example. (Im paraphrasing from their own Bible version)
Revelation 20.Start at verse 1 now, it says:
I SAW AN ANGEL COME DOWN FROM HEAVEN WITH THE KEY OF THE ABYSS
AND HE SEIZED THE DEVIL AND BOUND HIM 1 THOUSAND YEARS....
okay,go into dub mode,when does that happen? After Armaggedon, right?
verse 3:
HURLED HIM INTO THE ABYSS...UNTIL THE THOUSAND YEARS WERE ENDED.
Now verse 4:
I SAW THRONES,THERE WERE THOSE WHO SAT DOWN..AND POWER OF JUDGING WAS GIVEN THEM...
144000, right?
AND THEY CAME TO LIFE AND RULED AS KINGS WITH CHRIST 1000 YEARS..
People, thats After Armaggedon. The Ressurection of the 144000 is after Satan is bound. So much for the dubs on the 1918 ressurection.
verse 5:
THE REST OF THE DEAD DID NOT COME TO LIFE UNTIL THE THOUSAND YEARS WERE ENDED.
So much for the dubs general resurrection during the 1000 years.verses 7 and 8 raise an old connundrum that has bothered me for years:
AS SOON AS THE THOUSAND YEARS ARE ENDED,SATAN WILL BE LOOSED.
AND HE WILL MISLEAD THOSE NATIONS IN THE 4 CORNERS OF THE EARTH.
THE NUMBER OF THESE IS AS THE SAND OF THE SEA.
AND THEY ADVANCED OVER THE BREADTH OF THE EARTH AND ENCIRCLED THE CAMP OF THE HOLY ONES.
Mr Dub.
Are you trying to tell me that everyones going to get resurrected,
spend 1000 years in perfection (dont forget the willfully wicked have died off DURING the 1000 years)and then so many, that they are "as the sands of the sea"are going to turn bad again??
You gotta be kidding!
Somethings WRONG people.... -
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refiners fire
74.
a one in 96 chance of being correct. -
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refiners fire
Well Im the wrong person to ask. I think my own family is a cult,an theres only three of us! Cult paranoia.
It would depend on how much psychological damage is being done here in this site as weighed against benefit. Theres no way to quantify this. measure it. Id say at the moment for the majority of ex dubs, ex dub association is more beneficial than harmfull. hence not a cult.
Whether in this site, or in personal associations.actually ive just coined a new definition for a cult.great. A cult is an organization that does more harm than good.
nuff said. -
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refiners fire
Not so.
It doesnt have a doctrine.
but then it does have a charismatic leader..hmm.. -
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Who is Lyndon Larouche?
by cynicus inin a discussion about the looming end of this system as propagated by some poster here, larc said:.
i think most economists don't even bother, because larouch is so far off from reality, a true fringe player.
there are many critiques of larouch's politics, which are interesting reading.. to be honest i had never heard from this guy before.
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refiners fire
we are going to start a private room on this site. "Uno Vs Larc re Larouche".It will run forever.Christ. You are probably both the same person.